Future Pondering: Would YOU Take Mark Helfrich BACK as an Offensive Coordinator?

Charles Fischer, Mr. FishDuck Editorials 77 Comments

Is Mr. FishDuck out of his mind? Wasn’t it he who stated that Mark Helfrich deserved be fired two days before he was? Why would anyone want to bring back a proven non-performer?

Because he might just be one of the best offensive minds in college football.

Let’s clear the air; I am delighted with the hiring of Joe Moorhead and look forward to studying how he is going to make the Oregon offense more potent. But he is a short-timer in my view, because once he re-establishes his offensive credentials at Oregon, head coaching gigs will come calling. He might only be in Eugene for a year, and frankly, my expectation is two years. Anything beyond that is gravy for the program and the fans.

So, would you take Helfrich back as offensive coordinator when the time comes?

From Video

Without Marcus Mariota to command the team, things deteriorated quickly.


I am the first to admit that Helfrich’s weaknesses are pronounced and program killers as a head coach, and yet I marvel at how well Mario Cristobal has proven the opposite can happen. Helfrich was not a great recruiter, as his three years of classes brought an average of a No. 22-ranked recruiting class, while Cristobal has averaged No. 10 in his three years. Helfrich brought in a total of 21 of the coveted 4-Star and 5-Star players, while Cristobal recruited 38 for a stunning 80% increase over the same three-year benchmark. Coach Cristobal has set the new bar.

If recruiting results were not diametrically opposed enough, the two HCs’ hiring skills are also dramatically different. Helfrich hired, arguably, the worst defensive coordinator in the history of Oregon football, and then stuck by him. If Cristobal, by contrast, doesn’t like what he sees with a new hire — he makes a change immediately (example: wide receiver coach). The proof at hiring is a landslide for Coach Cristobal, and thus keeping Helfrich out of that tasking sphere makes a ton of sense.

The final area of baggage was the massive decline of leadership. Cristobal has the “it” factor and his presence just exudes excitement and confidence to all he meets. Helfrich is more inward and without sharing the inside stories I know, I will simply say that he lost the respect of the team in 2015 after Marcus Mariota left. I am not stating that Helfrich should be in a major leadership position again, and I acknowledge his flaws, as many of you do.

Gary Breedlove

The relationship between Helfrich and Athletic Director Rob Mullens turned chilly.

He is IDEAL for Cristobal, but not for Rob Mullens

There can only be one major personality in the coaches’ room, and that is why Helfrich was a good fit for Chip Kelly and would be for Coach Cristobal as well. Helfrich is more laid-back and is comfortable out of the lime-light and in a supporting role. Yet, things ended badly between Helfrich and Athletic Director Rob Mullens, as the 8 million dollar buy-out did not sit well with the AD, and the treatment of the departing coaching staff by Mullens was objectionable to many, including Helfrich. Could this be patched up?

The “weird” factor for the athletes would be passed shortly as well; none of the players Helfrich coached in 2016 will be on the team in a year from now. While it would have been awkward this year for some, it would not be by the time Moorhead decides to move along.

Helfrich Doesn’t Have Chip Kelly Helping Him?

That is an inaccurate narrative out there, as it assumes that the game-planning and decisions were primarily made by the head coach. Yet the reality is that innovative game plans and the use of old plays pulled from the book continued as Helfrich became the head coach and through his three years. The beginning of the evidence was in the Fiesta Bowl, and continued through a tremendous season in 2013. I believe Helfrich is simply brilliant as an offensive coordinator, and we have tons of proof right here at FishDuck.

Kevin Cline

Few could direct an offense like Helfrich at Oregon or nationally.

In fact an analyst at FishDuck, Josh Schlichter, noted how he could tell the difference between when Mike Bellotti was calling plays when Chip was OC, versus when Coach Kelly made the calls. He stated it was also very evident when Helfrich was Chip’s OC — and when things became run-stagnant, it was evident that Coach Kelly was being stubborn again. Once the offense became more balanced, it was clear that Kelly had given way to Helfrich.

I have written quite a bit about the Helfrich game-plans over the years, as I loved how he would pull old plays out to surprise an opponent. These were not trick plays, and they were certainly in the playbook, but simply had not been used in quite a while. How can an opponent prepare for that? I challenge anyone to read the four analysis articles linked and not come away impressed with Helfrich’s preparation and execution of a game plan, and yet realize that it can return again with the new wrinkles added.

Kevin Cline

Marcus Mariota and Mark Helfrich embrace before taking on the only team, (in the Pac-12 Championships) that beat them during the regular season. Helfrich was a superb QB coach.

Why Return to an Old, Dated Offense?

The original Oregon Spread Shotgun offense has proven to work at the highest levels and continues to. Ohio State head coach Ryan Day was a quarterback for Kelly at New Hampshire, and as a coach has used his offense to propel the Buckeyes into the Playoffs last year and most likely this season as well. Since Clemson adopted the original Oregon Spread Offense, the Tigers have a slew of BCS and National Playoff appearances and two National Championships as a new power in college football.

In my view, if Cristobal had carried out what he told us at the beginning of his HC career at Oregon of, “doing the same as before only being tougher in the trenches and matched with a great defense,” then the result of that would have the Ducks becoming a west-coast Clemson. This offense works, and it has only been used in part at Oregon under Cristobal. When it comes to the original Oregon offense … you can go home again!

Would you want Helfrich back someday as an OC?

Charles Fischer   (FishDuck)
Eugene, Oregon
Top Photo by Craig Strobeck

Natalie Liebhaber, the FishDuck.com Volunteer Editor for this article, works in the financial technology industry in Bozeman, Montana.

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Glanced at this article when it first came out but only now getting around to it.

At this moment I’m watching 2010 Oregon dismantle UCLA on the Pac 12 Network (Neuheisel looks as punchable as ever). Looking back, I would never have imagined those guys would one day claim our HC. Anyway, I’ve always liked Helf and would love to see him back at Oregon.

I see MaiTai is back, and spacing his paragraphs no less. I swear, I leave for a minute . . . !


I know for a fact Marc Helfrich had a great team with like what 5 starters out against Ohio St and that would have been a completely differen’t game had all those players played. Helfrich lost his job because he hired Pellum as his DC and well Don sucked at the job. He could have hired Nolan and I know he would of been a huge new hire if Marc wouldn’t have let his aw shucks these are all my friends and I can’t fire them and that’s why you didn’t last long Marc.

I would most certainly hire Helfrich for our OC because like you said he was brilliant at that coaching area. I would have him over Moorehead any day. Well maybe we should wait to see what happens after 6 games and hopefully a 7th and then some more. I love the spread concept and if Marcus would have had these beef eaters in his day well who know’s. Mario has learned from the best in the business and those Men new what had to be done if a coach wasn’t getting the job done.

Hey these guys make a whole lot of cash so I’m not hurt by it when they get fired. I’m always going to wonder why Oregon never ever thought of hiring a top DC. Defense wins Championships and 9 out of ten times that’s the case in just about every sport. Oregon has a pretty deep team and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go 7-0 and get into the playoff’s.


As an OC? Absolutely I’d take him back.
Even after Coach Kelly left, the offense was as explosive as ever under Helfrich. He had A LOT of problems as head coach, but offensive prowess was not one of them. Plus, he’s an Oregon guy, so that wouldn’t hurt.

My only two concerns would be this:

  1. Is there still lingering bad blood between Rob Mullens and Mark Helfrich?
  2. Will Coach Cristobal allow him to run the offense on game day?

It seems that the incoming Head Coach is generally the driver in the retention/dismissal of assistant coaches, (and some portion of support staff) and Willie wanted his slate of his folks coming in. Not clear to me why Mullens is seen as a bad guy for following what is common practice.


Also, something to think about that’s a plus for Helfrich: He might be better at finding hidden gems (recruiting wise) than we give him credit for. Correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s the one who initially discovered Marcus Mariota, right?


So, LSU has given up 96 points through the first 3 games this season, Big Ed is standing by DC, Bo Pelini, but he wants, to make it simpler. “I’d rather play one defense and get it right”. Next up for LSU? Florida, averaging 43.3 PPG, coming off a loss.


A resounding yes. Helfrich knows how to run a college offense and throw the football. Herbert had some epic games as a freshman running his scheme. I don’t believe JoMo is a better offensive mind or play caller. The real key is how much Cristobal will step back and let his OC run the show regardless who it is.


That’s exactly how I feel. Cristobal is an amazing general but he needs top lieutenants to get to the top.


I think you bring up a great topic. Who is Cristobal going to let run the show? I tend to think Cristobal wouldn’t want, respect Helfrich running the show.

Helfrich was fired from his last two jobs and would come limping into this job. Don’t get me wrong I think Helfrich is a great guy and smart offensive mind. Moorhead was fired, but came away with a lot of respect for how he ran the offense before and even at his last job.

The last thing we need is another OC Cristobal doesn’t trust to take control of the decision making process on game day. With Helfrich I think Cristobal’s tendencies to take over at critical points would be too strong with Helfrich’s weak personality.

Definitely something to ponder when considering who, what kind of personality can be the OC under Cristobal, and be successful. I just hope Moorhead is that kind of guy.

David Marsh

I think the bigger red flag is actually that Helfrich didn’t call plays at Oregon. Kelly did while he was OC and then when he was Head Coach Frost and Lubrick called the plays.

Cristobal needs a field commander as an Offensive Coordinator.

Cristobal is also mimicking Saban in hiring those who may need to rehab their careers. Cristobal needed to rehab his career and went to Alabama and has done well since. Same goes for Kiffin… and Sark may be on his way to a head coaching job in a couple of years now (not going to be a lot of options at the end of this season).


I guess one thing we do know for sure is he was all for going for two instead of kicking extra points. Now that was a bonehead move, I hope we never see again, 1/5 and we lost the game by 3!

If we could have Marcus at qb and Helfrich then I would be all for it.

Jon Sousa

Oregon currently sits at #3 with USC at #4 nationally (Rivals). I think this is a great tradition to keep going. Two solid teams in the PAC elevates the PAC.

In Men’s BB, the Ducks are at #4 with a total of 5 teams from the PAC in the top 20.

In Ladies BB, there are 6 PAC teams in the top 25. Oregon is not one of them because of lack of space. The cupboard is almost full.

Jon Joseph

Also 3 on 247.

Jon Sousa

Yes. Pretty awesome! I went to rivals as that is the preferred Fishduck site.

One thing I don’t understand is how Alabama is #1 and 209 points ahead of the Ducks with the same number of 5*, one more 4*, 2 less 3*, and one less overall recruit than the Ducks.

Right now the Ducks are only 209 points out of first place! They are 135 points ahead of the Trojans.


That has to be SEC Math

David Marsh

USC’s class is interesting in terms of how it is composed… two of their top recruits are both quarterbacks which is interesting… followed by them offering another quarterback which is eyebrow raising. They are light on linemen (both sides of the ball) and their offensive line recruits are behind those Oregon is bringing in…

I wouldn’t count myself as well versed in recruiting and breaking down recruits… but USC’s class is good but has some interesting weaknesses.


Well you know how they go through QB’s at USC. I think this could indicate further the space between the recruiting at Oregon and the rest of the conference. USC was deep trouble recruiting, until Donte Williams showed up.

I don’t believe for a minute that they are matching the recruiting machine currently running at Oregon. I don’t know how much technique was actually being used during the Carroll years, but whatever they did was greatly augmented by the USC glow.

That glow has dimmed considerably under Helton. Their class is high now, but filled with shiny stars, not so much attention to where they align on the field. It will take some time to eclipse what Oregon has going.

Jon Joseph

Thanks for linking in this and all the other updates you share. Helps keep all of us in the know.


Mark has young kids and he strikes me as the kind of guy who would be reluctant to go back to being a road warrior for recruiting the way it is now in Mario’s system.

I think he’d be inclined to look for more of a David Yost (Surfer Dude for BDF) arrangement while his kids are still at home and in school. Maybe road warrior after that.


“Surfer Dude” – – you gotta love it.

David Marsh

He’s got the money for it… I think that is a major reason why he disappeared after the Chicago job. I think he might be doing some alaysis stuff with a TV network.. but I’m not 100% sure on that one.

I think Helfrich will probably reemerge as a coach at some point but probably not until his kids are a bit older.


Tough for me to envision Cristobal hiring Helfrich. Helfrich is capable, and would be a solid OC at the college level, but he no longer is needed at Oregon. Same reason I would not rehire Chip Kelly.

Oregon is on the rise because of Cristobal. With the work ethic and recruiting chops he has brought to the Ducks, we will be consistently vying for the PAC 12 championship and beyond. There will be solid OC candidates available, if needed, that will be willing to work much harder than either Helfrich, or a Chip Kelly. Not a knock on their character, just reality.


Helfrich for Graduate Assistant!

Jon Sousa

I’m going to state my opinion before reading the article or the comments below. (Don’t want to bend to peer pressure.)

IF the OC position had only to do with X’s and O’s and calling the plays, I would take MH back in a heartbeat AFTER Moorhead leaves.

However, especially in the MC era of head coaching, recruiting chops and the willingness to devote yourself to it are a requirement for the job. Therefore, I don’t think MC would hire him back. Since MC is being so successful in recruiting and building the culture and the team that he wants – a team that wins – there is no way I would do anything different than what MC is doing.

So, bottom line, while I would love to have Helf back for his football mind, I would not hire him if it looked like recruiting or culture would suffer.

David Marsh

Short answer.. Yes.

Longer answer…

Helfrich’s biggest mistakes came on the personnel side of being a head coach. Which is a pretty big hole for a head coach. He, like Kelly, was given an incredible support staff and it covered this weakness for a few years. Helfrich promoted Pellum which was the Oregon way at the time and made the gut wrenching decision on a personal level to demote him. The hiring of Hoke was the death of his Oregon head coaching career.

Helfrich should NEVER have given up coaching the quarterback or at least taking a role in coaching the quarterback. Helfrich was the one who coached Mariota in 2011 (RS year and QBing 101 – intro to College QBing) and then in 2012 (RS FR starter and QBing 201 – So now you’re the starting QB).

Mariota then had Frost who helped him refine some of his skills and Frost did much the same for Vernon Adams for 2015, think of this as QBing QBing 401 – so now you are an established starter course. However, Frost failed to develop ANY of the talent behind those two guys.

Helfrich was there to develop Darron Thomas before Mariota and Bryan Bennett was a solid QB option and would have made a fine starter for Oregon but had Mariota to compete with and we all know how that turned out.

Also Helfrich wasn’t a bad recruiter as he brought in some top 20 recruiting classes though he is an Oregon recruiter in the old model where they had to find diamonds in the ruff and develop three stars far above their rankings. (Shameless self promotion) Scott Frost was Aboslutely Right about Oregon Recruting! Remember Helfrich was the guy who found Mariota and Herbert for that matter, and both turned out pretty good for Oregon and BOTH were top 10 NFL draft picks.

The bigger question I think is would Mark Helfrich fit the new Oregon culture driven by Cristobal? I think he could as he is a team player though that didn’t make him a great head coach but I think Helfrich’s true career will be at Offensive Coordinator. Helfrich as the HC at Oregon did take the Kelly offense and arguably improved upon it, partly because of some incredible quarterbacks, and party just updating it from the original Kelly template. Helfrich would be an incredible Xs and Os offensive coordinator and a solid quarterback coach.

The bigger question as to whether he’d fit at Oregon is his recruiting prowess. On this front I think with some help he could be coached up into a solid recruiter. He can already find talent. I also think he is a better recruiter than Kelly as he is more personable than Kelly… at least when he isn’t trying to emulate Kelly.

Thanks for the pondering Charles… I saw this title a few times on the schedule and I have wanted to talk about it myself.

Jon Joseph

Self promotion DM? Next thing we know you’ll be up on a billboard in Times Square! Ans I might add, looking good.


Absolutely. Wonderful offensive mind and a true Oregon supporter. Really a fine man above and beyond that. Great role model for young athletes.

Jon Joseph

FYI. Over at CBS Sports, Jerry Palm still has the Ducks in the final 4.

Sugar Bowl – 1. Clemson vs 4. Oregon

Rose Bowl – 2. Ohio State vs 3 Alabama.

Make it so.

Palm has SC playing Boise St in the Fiesta Bowl and ASU playing IA ST in the Alamo Bowl. The beavers is also in, playing Army.


Good to see that Palm has Oregon in over Notre Dame, who is likely to have as many games in as Oregon when the season finishes. It is silly, but I’ll go with interesting to see Oregon and Ohio State in the polls and moving up, before either school has played a game, but that’s 2020.

Jon Joseph

I think he is dinging ND based on at least 1 and possibly 2, Ls vs Clemson.

ND has looked good but has yet to play a decent team. The Irish play Louisville in South Bend on Saturday and certainly should win.

Not sure if ND will play a road game this season? So far it’s been all home cookin’.

David Marsh

That’s the sort of predictions Oregon needs to stand a chance of getting into the playoff. Oregon can only do one thing to get themselves to the playoff and that is win (and go undefeated but that’s an extension of winning). It is going to take media pundits saying they belong in the playoff to make the idea acceptable … especially considering they are only playing 7 games this year.

The more help that the Ducks could be/are a legitimate playoff team the better.

Jon Joseph

Good points. Especially considering that this comes from SEC-centric, CBS.

I do think Oregon can go 7-0 but in this crazy year it has to be an impressive 7-0. And it would help the cause if both the Ducks and SC come into the conference champ game at 6-0 and with both in the top 10.

I think 1 of Bama/UGA, Clemson and Ohio State are odds on to run the table. I think OK ST will lose at least 2 games. So this could well come down to 7-0 Ducks versus a 2L SEC team?


After Moorhead moves on … yup, MC and Helfrich would make a very good yin-and-yang team.

My one complaint about MC is his in-game coaching. My one complaint about MH was his poor recruiting.

Seems like a good match.

One final note, I think MH has enough humility to pull this off and I think MC is more than confident Enough as well.


I don’t think Cristobal likes to have coaches on his staff that are not great with recruiting.


That’s the key, BDF. However you want to characterize Helfrich’s recruiting chops, aggressive doesn’t fit. Helfrich as an OC, staying in the background studying film won’t work on Mario’s staff.

I respectfully will disagree here. I don’t think determination, let alone, dogged determination, is something that can be taught.


Yea, you either have it or you don’t. It’s called charisma and can’t be taught.

David Marsh

I don’t necessarily think it is determination but consistency and ensuring those relationships are built. The other thing as well is that MC uses a recruitment by committee approach where a player has contact with a group of coaches rather than just one. There still may be a primary recruiter but this group recruitment method has resulted in shockingly few commitments, especially after coaches announce they are departing the program.

I think this environment would work great for Helfrich if he were to ever return to Oregon with MC as head coach.

David Marsh

Helfrich was good at spotting diamonds in the ruff and the Oregon staff that Helfrich inherited did polish those diamonds into some spectacular players. I think MC could see the resume and take a chance on MH as he could improve as a recruiter drastically. The classes under Helfrich were recruited in an older mold of Oregon, one that was an emerging power and now Oregon has enough of a football history to be considered an established power (at least by the kids they are recruiting).

Though as long as Mullens is the AD I doubt Helfrich looks at an open Oregon OC job.


. Nobody has defined the difference between OC and HC as clearly as has Mark Helfrich so the idea of him calling the plays for the Ducks again isn’t insane. But it won’t happen, mainly I think because should Morehead leave because his success as OC at Oregon lands him a HC gig, there will be a line of top candidates for the OC position at Oregon to pick from, with no drama attached.

Now, how about, “Dem Chargers”! This time they build a 20-3 lead before ending with another L. A guy on TV says the Chargers, “don’t know how to win”. This is one of those easy statements at the top of the pile for lazy talking heads. True, the Chargers haven’t won yet, but this time certainly it wasn’t because they don’t know how.

Herbert was 20-34, 264 yards, 4 TD’s 0 INT’s QBR: 74.4 Breeze finished with a QBR of 66.2. Mie Williams knew he had to get a half a yard further on the last play for a first down, Lattimore, of the Saints knew it too, and stopped him. I also really believe that the Chargers kicker knew to make the extra point after the Chargers’ first touchdown, just as he knew to not clank what would have been the game winning field goal off the goal post!!!

The Chargers get next week off, then they get the Jets. If they don’t win that one…


You are so right about the Chargers. Justin is doing a very good job and that bodes for the future once they can get him some protection and also get a better kicker. The game was in the kickers hands feet last night. Good to see no interceptions by Justin. Each week they get closer to getting that win.


This L makes the Chargers 1-4 by a combined total of 18 points, 4 1/2 per game! A missed extra point and field goal in this one, a botched hook and ladder against the Panthers. Through all of it Justin has stood tall, and not just 6’6 tall, but in the way he has taken care of business on the field and in the post game interviews. I can’t see his teammates doing anything but playing even harder for their QB to get that W.

And the talking heads won’t stop. Now they’re saying that, “the Saints found a way to win the game”. All the time after a comeback the question is, did one team, win the game or did one team, lose the game? The answer can’t be any clearer. Missed extra point, clanked field goal = Chargers lost the game.


Good point 30Duck

Jon Joseph

Helrich is a textbook example of the Peter Principle. Like many of us he was excellent on one level and not qualified for the next level.

Rob Mullens made a poor decision. He also made a questionable decision hiring a G5 coach with a losing record but lucked out because Willie brought Mario west.

I don’t know how long Moorhead will be in Eugene. But if your OC and DC are not on other teams radar as potential HC candidates are they the right people to have on staff?

I would definitely be OK with Helf returning as Oregon’s OC. I did not understand why the Bears fired him.

Of course at this point in time I would hope Helf has invested his money to the point where he need not, if he so desires, coach again?

Mario is going to have big bucks thrown at him. And if Mario goes he will not leave all the assistant coaches behind.

Thank goodness for SEC refs who in 2020 have gifted Gus Malzahn and Auburn wins over Kentucky and Arkansas. And if Texas ever gets rid of the underperforming Tom Herman?

Fun take Charles, thanks.

Including ND, there are 5 ACC teams top 25 ranked. But Clemson still appears to be at a different level. The beat down of the U was impressive.

1 that got away. When briefly subbing for Lawrence, DGU looked more than adequate. He is one big man playing QB.


Sounds like something Saban would do so you never know. Saban has had some great success hiring head coaches with great offensive minds who flamed out for whatever reason.

On the other hand I am not sure if programs have had much success bringing back their old head coach as a coordinator. That just seems to create a power struggle situation.

The big knock on Helfrich is he isn’t a good or great recruiter. Maybe he could be brought up to the next level surrounded by the ‘juice’ of the rest of the staff, I don’t know. The offense is the area where we need a great recruiter, and haven’t really had that yet at the skill positions.

Interesting point to ponder, I doubt Cristobal would be intimidated by Helfrich. He should be on the list.

Jon Joseph

2 SC cast offs have been darn good OCs for Nick. Kiffin put a scare into him last Saturday and Sark will have his hands full this Saturday.


Been there done that, time to move onward and upward.


Yea, I think we cheerfully disagreed on this subject once before in the past but always good to get your thoughts.


Agree. Not a big Glory Days fan.


Absolutely. Brilliant mind for getting speed in space. Combine that with MC’s power and size recruiting, and it could be awesome.

Mind you, Joe Moorhead is of the same vintage, so it’s like trading for something similar. So, maybe after Joe moves on to another HC position.

Good read. Cheers.

Jon Joseph

Quack, I just hope Joe doesn’t leave with Mario?



Jon Joseph

Yeah, I do hate to harp on this but somehow, someway, Oregon is going to have to find the $ not only for Mario but for the quality assistants.

Looking at the B1G, SEC, OK and TX, it ain’t a fair financial fight.

Jon Sousa

Those Duck boosters will have to come up with it, like they do in SEC land.


Agreed, as that is the only way it’s going to be done. Now let’s wait and see how much Lazy Larry can lose for us with the next TV deal and we have to again push the boosters to keep the Ducks in the game.

Jon Joseph

With ESPN considering further cuts one wonders where the media $ will come from? I still believe that Amazon, Apple, etc. will not be in the mix; but I hope I am wrong.


Agree that Amazon, Apple don’t seem to be in the future. Can’t blame them as they would get the left overs from the TV networks, now and in the future.

Jon Joseph

The wallets will have to open wiiiiiiiiiiiiiide, no doubt.


Can you imagine what it would be like to replace Cristobal without wide pockets ?? That would take us further back then I would like to go.


Yeah, it certainly ain’t whistling in the dark to point out that keeping Mario and his staff is going to be tough. The sense of Mario really wanting to build Oregon in to a power weighed against the financial disparities you mentioned is inevitable.

Jon Joseph

You don’t recruit like Mario recruits without being on many the radar screen. He is a fierce competitor and I hope winning a Natty at Oregon and for the down Pac-12 will help him decide to stick around.

He is going to have ‘generational $’ thrown at him at some point down the road.

If he doesn’t already have a full ride membership at Eugene CC, Nick A needs to step up and make this happen.

Then again, he may be too intelligent to play the stupid game?


There has to be more big bucks out there other than Uncle Phil.